Well, for one I am a card carrying NRA member and I know for a fact that when I go to my doctor’s office that there is a gun because I’m the one carrying it.

Do I think that the doctor is going to shoot me? No. I don’t think I’m going to get rear ended but I still wear my seatbelt.

“I personally feel that if there were fewer guns around people would be safer.”

If that was true, then you could lower the number of physician suicides by removing medicines from their offices.

Except violence and suicides are not *caused* by inanimate objects. If they were, each cop you walked by would shoot at you.

I ask you this, why would a doctor having a gun bother you? Do you live in fear that your physician is trying to kill you? I mean if he really wanted you dead, he could stab you with a scalpel or inject you with something lethal. What mystical properties does a hunk of plastic, wood, and metal have over the mind that forces the bearer to commit violence?

Slow down Robb and re-read his bit. He is not worried about the gun itself, but rather, the message it sends regarding the perceived danger that might exist at a Doctors Office.

JC, in response to your worry, I’m gonna trot out one of the old counters. When you go to a mall and see fire extinguishers and hose stands and 3″ fire plugs and sprinkler heads, are you worried that the mall will erupt into flame? If a fire did occur, would you worry that a random person not rigorously trained in their use would grab such a device and use it fight the fire?

For me, if a physician felt that keeping a firearm in his desk or on his person was a necessary safety precaution in his office, I would not worry, nor would I question it unless I observed said physician storing or handling the firearm in an unsafe manner. I’d even feel better if I saw that his office was decorated with trophies and awards from firearms competitions (at least then I know he is likely to hit what he aims at).

I’d be completely fine with it. Just like any other small business owner or, well, human being for that matter, a doctor has the right to defend himself. I’d feel no more unsafe than going to a barber, mechanic or lawyer who had firearms on premises.

It’s a little funny, actually, you said “It makes you think twice about your surroundings and take a closer look at the people in the waiting room before you sit down.” almost as if it were a bad thing. All too often, bad things happen to people who aren’t aware of their surroundings and haven’t taken a second look at the people around them. The need for self defense can occur anywhere, after all.

MRS,

I personally feel that if there were fewer guns around people would be safer.

That’s what I’m commenting on.

I see where you’re coming from - my neighborhood isn’t awesome, and I feel, sometimes, that I actually might need my guns on some nights. This makes me nervous, and it’s part of the reason I was so happy to finally get my CHP last week. The fact that I happily carry around my firearm, hidden, regardless of whether I think I’ll need it or not, makes some of my family members nervous. They feel like if I think I might need my gun at some point, I should move somewhere where I feel safer. The fact of the matter is that there are places that may be safe for a long time as a gun-free location, but eventually people who mean harm will happen to those places. I just want to be ready if it does happen while I’m there.

If a doctor wants to keep a firearm in his/her office, I’m all for it. In order to own a dealer-sold firearm in TN, you have to pass a background check. If they pass that check, it means they don’t have any diagnosed mental disorders, and haven’t committed any felonies. Thus, the chances of them using that gun for anything but its intended purpose (self-defense only) are greatly reduced. So, really, as you said, it’s just the same as some other small business owner having a handgun.

I think I may be more nervous if, say, my gynecologist had a handgun, but that’s more from my position of vulnerability in that office than it is a measure of wondering why they would need a gun in the office to begin with.

You just have to identify where your nervousness comes from, and deal with that. Is it the doctor? The patients? The area of town? Or just the fear that there has to be a reason for the firearm other than the fact that we have the right to keep and carry them?

No, It would not bother me a bit if a doctor stored a gun at his office. Most of the time the doctor isnt in his office. If he thought the best place to store it is behind the reception desk. That is fine too. The only thing I worry is people picking up a gun who does not know the safety rules.

Ignorant people will pick up a gun and not be aware that they are pointing it at someone. But if a doctor thought enough that he might need a gun, I am reasonably assured he has trained his staff on what to do.

I don’t know that i think the number of assaults in doctor’s offices warrants a gun behind the counter. Maybe in certain areas where people could be coming in looking to steal drugs or something like that. But for the most part, i’d say it’s like any other business, if the doctor wants to get a Concealed Carry permit and keep it in his office, I see that as pretty covert and harmless. The main thing is training. 90% of concealed carry classes is covering the ethics behind using a gun in self-defense.

I would be no more worried, and in some cases less worried, than if I knew the doctor had an automobile.

i was going to chime in on the article’s question, but i find Phoronus and Madrocketscientist have already made most of my points.

all i can say that’s new is in reply to progressive conservative; to wit, it’s not the risks, it’s the stakes. car accidents per person-mile driven comes out to an awfully low number, but i still wear my seat belt when i go down to the grocery store; not because the risk is great, but because what i might be risking is irreplaceable. i quite agree on the point about training, though, you can’t have too much of that.

yet to read an article about a physician shooting or killing a patient who was assaulting him in his office.

I can think of a psychiatrists’ office in NYC a couple months ago that, in retrospect, probably wishes they had some means of defense. The woman doctor was brutally slashed to death (including bloody handprints on the window) and her colleague who tried to help spent time in the hospital. It would have ended differently, if the colleague had access to a gun.

I want to make sure I’m not being misunderstood (yesterday seemed to pull the grump out of me).

I wouldn’t care if my physician had a gun any more than I’d care if my neighbor, mechanic, coworker, waitress, valet, or shoe shine boy did. The gun itself will not cause problems. Yes, people misuse them, but people misuse every last thing that has ever existed on earth.

A doctor has an oath to do no harm when performing his practice. It’s not a suicide pact that states he or she cannot protect themselves, their employees, or their property. In fact, the do no harm thing is not absolute - to inject a needle, you must puncture the skin. To remove a tumor, you must cut through tissue. And to save your life or that of your employees, you may need to take one or at least be able to back up the threat of doing so.

In fact, I’d feel more comfortable with a doctor who understands this than one who cannot discern between being protective and being predatory.

Why would I ever worry about a law abiding citizen possessing a firearm on or near their person? None of my pistols has done anything illegal; although my XD was an original model that started to rust which to me is a crime.

There are a multitude of reasons the average doctor would need to take the precaution including: The storage of drugs on the premises, petty cash on hand for the few patients that possibly pay cash, and the appearance of being a place that a criminal could face little resistance.

Don’t fear the object.

Hi Shaheen,

Thanks for visiting my site and asking me to comment here.

Prescription drugs are far more dangerous than guns, so it doesn’t bother me if doctors have guns at work, as long as they follow the law.

Many of the doctors who have felt threatened have been suffering the side effects of their own drugs. For example, most school shootings and incidents of mass violence involved a person taking an antidepressant, but this is not typical behavior of a depressed person.

I read one psychiatrist’s story of how a person whom he’d recently put on an antidepressant came to his office, laid a gun on the desk and started talking about making the world a better place. Rather than getting his own gun, he researched the school shootings and put the pieces together. He knew this person just a few weeks before had no violent tendencies, and therefore stopped the drug and the man returned to normal.

This psychiatrist is now leaving psychiatry because of this experience - it opened his eyes to the fact that many of the drugs he prescribed caused many of the subsequent psychiatric symptoms, rather than the illness.

Thanks again for asking for my opinion.

I’m curious to hear what people think. Would you not see a doctor if you knew he had a gun in his office? Do you feel that physicians are similar to the Red Cross and that they should be neutral and conflict avoiding?

I am a card carrying member of the NRA, a CHL holder, and carry a firearm pretty much 24/7.

I also consider myself to be a conflict avoiding individual. The fact that I have decided to use the most efficient tool available for the defense of myself and my family does not, in any way, infer that I am looking to become involved in any sort of conflict. Conflict avoidance is a major component of any self defense program..

Would I see a Dr. if I knew there was a gun in the office? Of course, but I would prefer that if the firearm were for self defense, the Dr. kept it at hand.

Physicians have the right to have any legally owned object in their office that they desire. They have a right to the ability to effectively protect themselves and others from violence. I am glad that is not disputed. We are not talking about a patient or family member acting out. We are not talking about verbal threats. We are talking about someone attacking another human being with the intent to cause grave bodily injury or death.

As far as your questions:

Would you not see a doctor if you knew he had a gun in his office?

The physician I see does carry a gun. I assume it is also in his office if he is there. I would not change physicians because of this. In fact, I am comforted knowing he has the ability to effectively stop a violent attempt on his life and the lives of others. He has taken the responsibility for saving lives from a violent attack.

Do you feel that physicians are similar to the Red Cross and that they should be neutral and conflict avoiding?

I believe that physicians should be proactive in quelling conflict. They should have the ability and means to stop conflict. They should not be disaffected bystanders who studiously avoid, indeed retreat from conflict. When violence occurs, there is no neutral position. Either you allow it to continue or you stop it. The real question is which path you take.

Physicians, when they enter med school, often want to make a difference. They want to save lives. The financial aspect of medicine is a bonus. The lack of effective self defense will not stop violence. When violence occurs, the firearm becomes a life saving tool, much like an AED or a fire extinguisher. Looked at from this perspective, the gun in the physician’s hands is no different from any other device in giving him the means to save lives.

I’m worried less about a doctor having a gun in his office than him not having the gun on his person. Where will it be when it’s needed? In a drawer three doors down the hall is not the answer.

As to needing a firearm in a doctor’s office, I don’t see any difference between a doctor’s office, a mall, my house or the corner of Third and Main. Ask yourself this: how often do you take the spare tire out of your trunk and leave it at home because you don’t think you’ll have a flat tire that day? And, if so, do you think you won’t have a flat tire that day because of the particular streets you plan on using?

I do not see where a person’s lawful choice of occupation should limit their ability to defend themselves and their employees. I have known pastors who have kept a firearm in their vehicle because they occasionally had to travel through dangerous neighborhoods.

Moreover, I would trust MY physician with a firearm. I also trust his discretion, and his medical judgement. I believe that if he wanted to kill someone, he could do so with the tools of his profession in a much more efficient manner than with a gun, and do it in a way that it would be hard to put him up on charges of murder. Therefore, a gun in his hands would not be in the least scary. I also know that he’s not a hoplophobe (abnormal fear of firearms), since he was able to detect that I was carrying at one appointment, and chose not to even mention it out loud.

I also agree with Xavier’s comments above, as well as JR’s statement that if he had a gun in his office, it would be better if it were worn on him, as he is then in physical control of it at all times.

I, personally, would feel better if I knew that my physician did have a gun. That way I would know that she understood me, her patient, better, since I am a gun owner. As for being frightened… why? None of my own guns have ever shot me, and since my doctor, AFAIK, doesn’t have any homicidal thoughts towards me, I wouldn’t have the least problem with her being armed.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to walk around legally armed. I do it as often as I can.

I do want to address this comment from the post:

I think it would be scary not because of the gun itself, but because of the fact that the environment could actually warrant firearms.

That’s not a realistic outlook, in my opinion.

Churches are not an environment that would warrant firearms, but the one in Colorado avoided certain carnage because people in that church were armed.

The sad fact is, people can “flip out” anywhere, at any time. Like the fire extinguisher and seat belt analogies, not being prepared for conflict is what leads to disaster.

People need to have a plan for life’s uncertainties, and “hope” is not a plan.

To answer your questions:

Would you not see a doctor if you knew he had a gun in his office?

A doctor having a firearm in his office certainly would not deter me from seeing that doctor. In fact, personally I’d prefer the doctor to have firearms at his office, just in case he spots my (legally owned and carried) pistol I carry daily. I would feel the same way Xavier does: that he has decided to take a proactive approach to ending conflict.

Do you feel that physicians are similar to the Red Cross and that they should be neutral and conflict avoiding?

I feel that ALL persons should avoid conflict. This is not an idea that the Red Cross created, nor is it one the Red Cross is mutually exclusive in practicing. I’d say that most, if not all, reasonable, law-abiding people avoid conflict already. Unfortunately, conflict frequently seeks out those who were avoiding it. No one is expecting to have a fire, either, but a fire extinguisher is right handy when there is one. At the point where conflict or fire reaches you, avoiding it is no longer an option. You allow it or fight it.

Not to say that the gun is the only option, either. Lead others to safety and call the police if you can. You do whatever you can do. Those of us who have firearms at the ready have a more direct, active approach to conflict resolution.

tweaker

If I were a patient, I think it would be kind of scary to know that my doctor who I am seeing has a gun in his office. I think it would be scary not because of the gun itself, but because of the fact that the environment could actually warrant firearms.

I do not understand this statement at all. If the environment warrants firearms, then wouldn’t you want your doctor to be armed? I get the idea that you do not want to face the fact that a hospital or doctor’s office DOES warrant firearms. Ignoring this fact just adds to the body count. I speak from experience.

My wife’s Bible study teacher was shot and killed outside of her office last month. You can read a little about her story here.
http://evidenceministries.blogspot.com/2008/04/in-memory-of-julie-abbott.html

Hospitals are “gun free zones” in Texas. That sure did a lot of good didn’t it?

If I were a patient, I think it would be kind of scary to know that my doctor who I am seeing has a gun in his office. I think it would be scary not because of the gun itself, but because of the fact that the environment could actually warrant firearms.

Many people don’t realize they are virtually always in environments that “warrant firearms.” They are largely ignorant to the risks (albeit usually low risks) that are present.

Sometimes they’re oblivious to the possibility of anything going wrong.

Sometimes it’s denial that anything could happen to them.

Of course, many people realize, to some degree, there’s risks in everything. Then the issue is what to do about it.

For some, it’s a calculated gamble that despite the risks, it’s not worth the hassle to take certain precautions.

Others think that someone else will stop the problem (911+cops) if one crops up.

And finally, others take responsibility for their own safety keeping tools, such as firearms, on hand to deal with possible (albeit usually unlikely) situations.

Personally, I’m fine with those in that last group. I don’t think everyone, or even a majority, should be in that last group. A lot of folks simply aren’t mature and knowledgeable enough to do it safely…even many doctors aren’t.

Carrying a gun safely requires control of temper, avoidance of elective situations that might knowingly increase the changes you’ll need to use a gun for self defense, and proper gun handling techniques (including not handling a gun when there’s absolutely no need to be futzing with it).

In the end, if the doctor feels a need for self defense tools, then A OK by me. Who am I to make judgments about the value of other people’s lives, by denying they any and all reasonable tools to protect themselves with….yes I view a firearm as a reasonable tool for some situations.

I would be completely fine with it. In fact, I would be *more likely* to go to a doctor that carried a firearm in his office than one that did not.

A few hunting/shooting gun magazines in the waiting room are a nice touch to see in a doc’s office.

I’d feel a lot more comfortable if I knew my doctor had a firearm handy. I haven’t asked; I know, when I go, that at least one of us is armed.
Doctors are supposed to save lives, if possible. When a violent situation occurs, the choice is to stop it (as one may do when armed), or tacitly cooperate (which is all an unarmed person can do).

Doctors need to set up their offices where the patients are. My pediatrician’s office is in a real crappy part of town because that’s where he’s needed. I would be okay knowing he was armed because that’s the environment he practices. In fact, I would be surprised to learn that he’s NOT carrying. He’s offering a vital service to a severely, economically challenged area. I also think teachers should be armed or at least trained in every aspect of police work, especially those working in inner city schools. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

I’m a physician who carries at all times. No one has a right to inflict death or serious harm on innocents, and I have a right (and a duty) to stop the attack if I can.

We docs aren’t dealing with a normal population. While most folks we see are perfectly normal, the nature of our work, in whatever branch of medicine, brings us into contact with plenty of not-so-normal types.

But even if I were a plumber I would carry. I have the right to defend myself, period.

Oh, and by the way, the photo you have chosen of a yokel carrying a handgun is insulting.

Perhaps you believe the photo is one of a doctor carrying a gun. If so, it is fitting, but incorrect. If you are attempting to potray people who carry guns as lunatics, the photo is a good indicator of that intent. If that is not your intent, you need to change it. It would still be incorrect.

Want to know what people who CCW look like? They look just like you, or the person next to you. They look like your best friend. They look like normal, everyday human beings, not a person in post-Katrina New Orleans tryting to protect their property. Oh, yes…….that is what your photo depicts.