Today’s scientists are like religious gurus of earlier times. Whatever they say are accepted as divine truths by lay public as well as the philosophers. When mystics have said that time is unreal, nobody has paid any heed to them. Rather there were some violent reactions against it from eminent philosophers. Richard M. Gale has said that if time is unreal, then 1) there are no temporal facts, 2) nothing is past, present or future and 3) nothing is earlier or later than anything else (Book: The philosophy of time, 1962). Bertrand Russell has also said something similar to that. But he went so far as to say that science, prudence, hope effort, morality-everything becomes meaningless if we accept the view that time is unreal (Mysticism, Book: religion and science, 1961).
But when scientists have shown that at the speed of light time becomes unreal, these same philosophers have simply kept mum. Here also they could have raised their voice of protest. They could have said something like this: “What is your purpose here? Are you trying to popularize mystical world-view amongst us? If not, then why are you wasting your valuable time, money, and energy by explaining to us as to how time can become unreal? Are you mad?” Had they reacted like this, then that would have been consistent with their earlier outbursts. But they had not. This clearly indicates that a blind faith in science is working here. If mystics were mistaken in saying that time is unreal, then why is the same mistake being repeated by the scientists? Why are they now saying that there is no real division of time as past, present and future in the actual world? If there is no such division of time, then is time real, or, unreal? When his lifelong friend Michele Besso died, Einstein wrote in a letter to his widow that “the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” Another scientist Paul Davies has also written in one of his books that time does not pass and that there is no such thing as past, present and future (Other Worlds, 1980). Is this very recent statement made by a scientist that “time does not pass” anything different from the much earlier statement made by the mystics that “time is unreal”?
Now some scientists are trying to establish that mystics did not get their sense of spacelessness, timelessness through their meeting with a real divine being. Rather they got this sense from their own brain. But these scientists have forgotten one thing. They have forgotten that scientists are only concerned with the actual world, not with what some fools and idiots might have uttered while they were in deep trance. So if they at all explain as to how something can be timeless, then they will do so not because the parietal lobe of these mystics’ brain was almost completely shut down when they received their sense of timelessness, but because, and only because, there was, or, there was and still is, a timeless state in this universe.
God is said to be spaceless, timeless. If someone now says that God does not exist, then the sentence “God is said to be spaceless, timeless” (S) can have three different meanings. S can mean:
a) Nothing was/is spaceless, timeless in this universe (A),
b) Not God, but someone else has been said to be spaceless, timeless here (B),
c) Not God, but something else has been said to be spaceless, timeless here (C).
It can be shown that if it is true that God does not exist, and if S is also true, then S can only mean C, but neither A nor B. If S means A, then the two words “spaceless” and “timeless” become two meaningless words, because by these two words we cannot indicate anyone or anything, simply because in this universe never there was, is, and will be, anyone or anything that could be properly called spaceless, timeless. Now the very big question is: how can some scientists find meaning and significance in a word like “timeless” that has got no meaning and significance in the real world? If nothing was timeless in the past, then time was not unreal in the past. If nothing is timeless at present, then time is not unreal at present. If nothing will be timeless in future, then time will not be unreal in future. If in this universe time was never unreal, if it is not now, and if it will never be, then why was it necessary for them to show as to how time could be unreal? If nothing was/is/will be timeless, then it can in no way be the business, concern, or headache of the scientists to show how anything can be timeless. If no one in this universe is immortal, then it can in no way be the business, concern, or headache of the scientists to show how anyone can be immortal. Simply, these are none of their business. So, what compelling reason was there behind their action here? If we cannot find any such compelling reason here, then we will be forced to conclude that scientists are involved in some useless activities here that have got no correspondence whatsoever with the actual world, and thus we lose complete faith in science. Therefore we cannot accept A as the proper meaning of S, as this will reduce some activities of the scientists to simply useless activities.
Now can we accept B as the proper meaning of S? No, we cannot. Because there is no real difference in meaning between this sentence and S. Here one supernatural being has been merely replaced by another supernatural being. So, if S is true, then it can only mean that not God, but something else has been said to be spaceless, timeless. Now, what is this “something else” (SE)? Is it still in the universe? Or, was it in the past? Here there are two possibilities:
a) In the past there was something in this universe that was spaceless, timeless,
b) That spaceless, timeless thing (STT) is still there.
We know that the second possibility will not be acceptable to atheists and scientists. So we will proceed with the first one. If STT was in the past, then was it in the very recent past? Or, was it in the universe billions and billions of years ago? Was only a tiny portion of the universe in spaceless, timeless condition? Or, was the whole universe in that condition? Modern science tells us that before the big bang that took place 13.7 billion years ago there was neither space, nor time. Space and time came into being along with the big bang only. So we can say that before the big bang this universe was in a spaceless, timeless state. So it may be that this is the STT. Is this STT then that SE of which mystics spoke when they said that God is spaceless, timeless? But this STT cannot be SE for several reasons. Because it was there 13.7 billion years ago. And man has appeared on earth only 2 to 3 million years ago. And mystical literatures are at the most 2500 years old, if not even less than that. So, if we now say that STT is SE, then we will have to admit that mystics have somehow come to know that almost 13.7 billion years ago this universe was in a spaceless, timeless condition, which is unbelievable. Therefore we cannot accept that STT is SE. The only other alternative is that this SE was not in the external world at all. As scientist Victor J. Stenger has said, so we can also say that this SE was in mystics’ head only. But if SE was in mystics’ head only, then why was it not kept buried there? Why was it necessary for the scientists to drag it in the outside world, and then to show as to how a state of timelessness could be reached? If mystics’ sense of timelessness was in no way connected with the external world, then how will one justify scientists’ action here? Did these scientists think that the inside portion of the mystics’ head is the real world? And so, when these mystics got their sense of timelessness from their head only and not from any other external source, then that should only be construed as a state of timelessness in the real world? And therefore, as scientists they were obliged to show as to how that state could be reached?
We can conclude this essay with the following observations: If mystical experience is a hallucination, then SE cannot be in the external world. Because in that case mystics’ sense of spacelessness, timelessness will have a correspondence with some external fact, and therefore it will no longer remain a hallucination. But if SE is in mystics’ head only, then that will also create a severe problem. Because in that case we are admitting that the inside portion of mystics’ head is the real world for the scientists. That is why when mystics get their sense of timelessness from their brain, that sense is treated by these scientists as a state of timelessness in the real world, and accordingly they proceed to explain as to how that state can be reached. And we end up this essay with this absurd statement: If mystical experience is a hallucination, then the inside portion of mystics’ head is the real world for the scientists.

The energy, God…whatever label you’ve chosen to put on what i so fondly call “The Everlasting Effervescence of Nothingness”. Anyways my point is we are all “1” yet divided, religion and the need for it divides us yet further and keeps us that way….There is another point id like make though, do not be joined together as a world if it means destroying the different cultures. I believe for the most part Cultures derive there spiritual powers from they’re surroundings, so it is my opinion that governments just get in the way and take from us our ability to be self sufficient.

I don’t mean to stray away from topic but i wanted to point out two factors that deprive us of Spiritual growth which religion tries to teach but doesn’t and Government debilitates self support.

I digress, Faith is a song that we all know but most of us have all forgotten. This song lies with in our hearts and is indefinable. We are connected to this planet and each other; example some of us have experienced ultimate sadness, some felt it so much that the sky pours down tears in the wake of it.
I hate to use this example but its one that most can relate too, you remember just a year~ish or more ago when China was struck by the Tsunami and before that we had 911 that caused many in the US to swoon in agony, could it be all our anger and sadness traveled around the world and slapped China in its wake. Think about it a bit. Alone we can but stir the wind, together we can move mountains.

I tried different Status of Religions and Meditations on for size, kinda like looking for a pair of shoes.
To Glitzy and judgmental the religions where, i did not fit in they’re scriptures as I am Lesbian. I had to ask myself where is the joy of living if these books do nothing but condemn me, i chose not to depressed by this and through off the texts of religion. Although i did keep an open mind because even though i felt like i was being burned at the stake, there were some things i felt to be true.

As for Meditations i mostly found that in Marijuana and LSD, cos as young person I am not good at sitting still. I wanted to know the unknowable, try to find stability in my less then accepted life, I even tossed myself out on to the streets where i lived without TV and all the amenities for about 10 years.
During that period of time i found connections with so many things for myself. I found the best and the worst of who i was. I found there in the dirt everything i needed to know. At the age 28 i had enough of the filth and transcended in this life time to something greater then i was. I left the dirt and filth hardened of heart and less blind to the nature of man.

You won’t know what it is your looking for till you have tasted the earth and been spit on by many.

By and By, if you cried or shed a tear for the Tsunami victims in China and you didn’t know why. I can tell you its because you felt responsible.

The most profound statement i found is Gods sees everything and is everywhere, could it just be simply we are that what we are told to worship? I think we are miss directed to keep us from our true potentials as a whole people, we should take care of one another love one another as best we can. A time will come when the song is to be sung that will save us and we can’t do it if we aren’t at peace with who we are. Don’t worry about the song when our hearts are in the right place it will sing it for us.

I’m very sorry for the book~ish statements, its very hard to get across what is on my mind as i think it would take a book to do so. With everything we have its so hard not to sound religious when it is often decided a person is not religious anymore because of religion. The good and evil is what teaches us to be one way or another along with other elements around us. Makes it very hard to write in a way that doesn’t seem contrary.

I encourage exploration, teaching one another, keeping an open mind when learning from another, don’t be afraid to try things, let your heart be your guide, don’t let fear govern you, keep a level and cautious head.

If science, which is concerned with the objective truth is one, then religion is also one, because it is concerned with the subjective truth, the other side of the truth…”
Osho
to continue reading this…
Gatelessgate Magazine

Belief can help us cope in so many ways! Like Lycosid said, few things are actually ‘proved’. An that’s not a bad thing, like some scientists may think!

Science has over time altered what many religions have postulated(eg.- geocentricity), but this isn’t a fight agaist religion, as such; people can still believe in divine things as much as they want, and realistically-minded people have no more (moral) right to criticize that than Muslims have when criticizing Christianity, or vice versa! Of course there is much scientific evidence, etc.- but though personally I’m an atheist, I don’t see that as a reason to try to strip good people of any faith they might have!