“Fervent discussions” are started not by one unfortunate 9-year-old child happening to develop autism after receiving a vaccine, but rather by irresponsible and scientifically unsubstantiated articles such as this one that irresponsibly use circumstantial evidence to fan the flames of parental worries!
I thought this was a science blog!

I thought this was a science blog!

Me too, guess we were wrong…

Which pharmaceutical company do you two respondents work for?
The so-called “circumstantial” evidence you refer to can be found in peer-reviewed journals for anyone curious enough to override the tide of pharmaceutical confuscation. The “science” behind vaccines, unfortunately, doesn’t exist. No gold-standard, double-blind ,controlled studies in the last hundred years. (But please, if you find one, send it to me, because I’ve scoured everywhere and have come up empty-handed.)
Yes, I thought conventional medicine was supposed to be a ’science’, too. Alas, I was wrong.

Great, someone scoured the bad-science websites and put together a seemingly scientific statement about vaccines. When questioned, the old, “pharma shill” gambit is used as a response.

As just a small commentary—there is a threshold of toxicity for every substance. It may very by individual, but there is one. For example, formaldehyde–don’t eat a banana. There’s more in a banana than in the vaccine schedule. Don’t eat or drink anything made on earth, because it has mercury in it to some degree.

And, gosh, HPV only prevents 70% of cancers. Only? If you can’t save everyone, we should let 70% get cancer? What sort of logic is that?

several problems here…. Vaccines no longer contain mercury but autism rates keep rising. Also the amount of aluminum contained in the HPV vaccine is similar to the amount of aluminum in a quart of baby formula. No doubt those 8 week old twins are going to drink gallons of formula in their lives, but no one is suggesting that we quit feeding our children because of “toxins.” (see http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=61 from the National Network for Immunization Information, an unbiased, non pharmaceutical web site for vaccine information.)

Also “safe sex” is hard to define for HPV. Nearly all sexually active adults will contract an HPV infection during their lifetimes. See http://www.cdc.gov under HPV or search for the ACIP presentations on HPV. The only way really to avoid HPV is never to have sex, or to marry someone who has never been in room naked with someone else. And hope you never get divorced or that your partner strays.

There is a very good article about this topic in a recent edition of Time magazine. As pointed out in Time, measles is making a comeback in the United States. It is only a matter of time before we start having deaths due to measles in the USA, just like the UK. I don’t want any unvaccinated children around my kids.

Deep breath folks.

No one has ever claimed that vaccines are 100% safe (what is?) Or at least no one who knows anything about how medicine and trials are done.

There are at least two arguments in favour of vaccines.
1. The damage caused hugely outweighs the costs. This is a callous calculation - but not gaining the benefits is more callous.
2. Herd immunity. Some bugs need to be eliminated from almost the entire population - or they live on in pockets and then break out into the whold population. This is the argument for mass vaccination.

A problem with any preventive strategy is that the results are invisible. If you know some old people (say, around 80) get them to talk specifically if they can remember about polio. That every 5th to 10th person on the street doesn’t have some kind of impairment is due to the success of mass vaccination for polio - we just don’t see it, we just see healthy people.

My problem with the debate on vaccination is the way the debate is framed. Trading off individuals against the larger population seems unethical. I wish I could think of another way of discussing it.

Glad to find the majority of responses defending vaccines and not bashing them. Totally agree that using the verbage “toxins” to frighten people is ridiculous. We can bet that Pharma parents and vaccine researchers alike get their children vaccinated- this should be proof enough that this is not a conspiracy….nor are they administering unsafe levels of “toxins”!

Until the world stops relying on anecdotal evidence……One day at a time!!

P.S. It is too bad that we are so spoiled by not having endured an epidemic of previously common diseases that this new group of “educated” typically middle class neurotics want to put all our kids at risk by their refusal to vaccinate.

Foreign DNA is toxic? Damn, I’d better stop eating fruit, vegetables and meat then.

Vaccination is not safe, nor effective. Science demonstrates the veracity of this statement, over and over again. Statistics show that vaccination has not lead to a dramatic reduction in say, measles, or polio - but that preceding the advent of vaccines for these conditions, levels had dropped precipitously thanks to better hygiene and water purification. To the contrary, measles is now a growing threat because vaccination disables the innate mechanism by which measles is permanently eliminated from the body, transforming what would be an acute disease into a chronic one.

And to the critics of anecdotal evidence - the death or permanent disabling of a child (lets say, your child), when followed by an obvious, singular cause: vaccination, can not be dismissed because the tragedy did not occur within the context of a large, double-blind clinical trial. Claiming that drawing a connection between life-altering negative side effects and vaccination is “unscientific” obviates the lack of commonsense involved in believing that injecting disease entities into healthy bodies to defend that body from disease is a sound medical practice. Are there no naturopaths left in the world? Allopathic medicine (toximolecular) began with this selfsame presupposition: that treating the body with sublethal dosages of toxic substances is a sane practice. What nonsense! It is Big Pharma, and not “Good Science” that many of you unwittingly defend with your misplaced criticisms.

Yes, take a big breath, indeed. First, the “bad science websites” include the archives of JAMA, NEJM, Lancet, CDC, FDA and Medscape. Still no sign of a double-blind, placebo study for vaccines…..EVER. (The academicians claim that would be “unethical”, despite thousands of parents who would willingly volunteer their children for the placebo group.)

Second, do your own homework on the amount of mercury in vaccines, still. Despite the tired journalistic phrase “it’s been removed”, it has not. Thimerisol is still used in the manufacturing process, and if you ask the CDC how much is still there, they defer to the FDA. The FDA (who should know, right?) defer to the manufacturer. The manufacturer(s) refuse to answer the question. Go ahead, ask. But you won’t get an answer. What IS noteworthy is that they have never been ‘required’ to remove the toxic matter, and although they have lowered the amounts, reluctantly, the old stocks with full mercury content stayed on the shelves for several years afterward. That might explain the continuing rise in neurological dysfunction afterward. “scientists”?

Third, call it a greed-based conspiracy if you like, and bear this in mind: An anonymous study conducted by Van Breda revealed that fewer than 30% of practicing pediatricians adhere to the CDC’s recommended vaccine schedule when it comes to their OWN children. Apparently, ordinary parents aren’t ’smart enough’ to decide if their children should be injected ad nauseum, but there’s some degree of genius required to inoculate OTHER people’s children. And whether vaccine manufacturers adhere to the schedule when it comes to their own children, I don’t know….and neither do you. Surely you don’t think they’d make that information public, considering the harassment that parents who don’t ‘comply’ face nowadays.

It should give one pause to know that Jock Doublday’s standing cash offer (now at >$180.000 and growing by $5,000 every month) has never been seized by any medical doctor who administers vaccines, nor any pharmaceutical board member (CEO or otherwise). All they’re required to do is publicly consume a weight-adjusted dose of the preservatives/adjuvants contained in the CDC’s recommendation for 6 yr-old children. Might just ask yourself, if these vaccines are so safe, WHY no takers? Surely they could use a bit of cold cash.

tia said “t should give one pause to know that Jock Doublday’s standing cash offer (now at >$180.000 and growing by $5,000 every month) has never been seized by any medical doctor who administers vaccines, nor any pharmaceutical board member (CEO or otherwise). All they’re required to do is publicly consume a weight-adjusted dose of the preservatives/adjuvants contained in the CDC’s recommendation for 6 yr-old children. Might just ask yourself, if these vaccines are so safe, WHY no takers? Surely they could use a bit of cold cash.”

Bullshit. If you read the contract:
http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/ContractPartA.htm … you will find lots requirements from reading a bunch of stupid books (after buying them), submitting to exams… etc, etc… Some here:
Requirements for Participant Eligibility:

A. Psychiatric Evaluations……

B. Mental Health Records….

C. Email Examination….

D. Book Purchase….l…, Participant agrees to obtain at Participant’s cost the following recently published books (the “Books”):..

E. Written Examination…Participant agrees to take a written closed-book examination (the “Exam”) administered by Coordinator or his agent within 60 (sixty) days of the signing of the Agreement-in-full. …

F. Good Health Certification….

…. a bunch more silly stuff…

Participant Donations:… plus give more money!

…. It is a bogus challenge….

Why, with all the points offered up, selectively challenge the Doubleday offer? I’d love to get some intelligent feedback about the glaring lack of viable vaccine research as everyone touts their (bogus) presumptive ‘miraculous effect on the human family’.

Bogus: def. “counterfeit or fake.” The Doubleday offer is neither. The offer requires that the participant engage in INFORMED CONSENT–a legal requirement for all invasive medical procedures, INCLUDING vaccine. Never mind that vaccinators never comply with this forgotten law–apparently Doubleday has a conscience. He simply wants the participants to understand what they’re signing up for. And frankly, even if he didn’t ‘require’ anything, he probably couldn’t find any takers. Besides, what’s unreasonable about submitting to a mental health screening prior to voluntarily ingesting lethal toxins? And for almost $200,000 cash, what would be so unreasonable about reading some informative material, the cost of which would barely put a dent in the total? As for donations, those are strictly voluntary and have nothing whatsoever to do with the ‘participant’. Nothing wrong with profits, right?–just note the enormous profits of pharmaceutical interests who shove their products down little baby’s throats WITHOUT INFORMED CONSENT.

Attention anyone who qualifies to be the participant–Perhaps your participation could put this argument to rest? However, the offer has been around since 2001, and although 14 qualified participants have made inquiry–SO FAR NO TAKERS. WHY? Because they have to verify their mental health status? Because they’d have to do some reading? Please enlighten me.

I don’t know enough about this issue to leave much of a comment. All I konw is this: That I don’t know enough about vaccines to feel comfortable allowing my children to get poked on a regular basis. My biggest problem is that I don’t even know where to start looking for truly unbiased, research-based, evidence-based information on vaccines. Period.

If I can find that, then I’ll be reading up…

Until then, I’m letting my conscience be my guide, and am not going to vaccinate my children until I KNOW FOR SURE that there is not only no harm in doing so, but that it is morally, ethically, scientifically, and verifiably RIGHT to do so. I don’t have that assurance. Yet. And, I must say, I genuinely hope I do someday.

Faerylandmom:
If I may suggest, purchase the book “Vaccine Safety Manual” recently released in April from Neil Z. Miller. This book goes into the diseases and the vaccinations. There ARE some emotional writings in this book (in fairness of full disclosure) but it is loaded with a bunch of studies! I’m about 3/4 into this book and have realized just how we’ve all been duped regarding vaccinations. You can purchase the book through Amazon, it’s about 20.00 including shipping. I can’t recommend this book enough.

This will be a 3 part reply. I couldn’t figure out why this wouldn’t post a couple days ago, but perhaps it was too long. I’m going to try and separate it.

Part I: (Studies will follow in parts II and III)

It’s amazing how pro vaccinators talk about science yet when asked to produce science that vaccinations either eradicated or put diseases on a decline, the science is missing. Science on the other hand has demonstrated severe adverse events with vaccinations (below).

It’s also ironic that the developer of Gardasil who spent over 20 years developing the vaccine is against the “mandate” of requiring this for young girls.

I also find it odd with the talk of vaccines that production is never discussed. Can anyone please explain the following:

1. Viral Contamination during commercial vaccine prodction.
2. Nanobacteria.
3. Bovine pestivirus detection, or lack of screening for such.
4. Immortal cells used in vaccine culture.
5. Cross contamination of cell lines.
6. “Other” species viral contamination.

Please direct me to the safety data as it relates to these very real issues surrounding vaccine production.

After you are done with this, can you please explain the studies linking aluminum to Alzheimer’s and Formaldahyde to Lou Gehrigs’? I don’t need to mention mercury or thimerosol (still in vaccines) this has already been covered.

Part II:

Studies (This is not a complete nor an exhaustive list):

1. Aluminum is established as a neurotoxin, although the basis for its toxicity is unknown. It recently has been shown to alter the function of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), which regulates exchanges between the central nervous system (CNS) and peripheral circulation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2671833?dopt=Citatio n

1. Alm JS, Swartz J, Lilja G, Scheynius A, and Pershagen G. Atopy in children of families with an anthroposophic lifestyle. The Lancet 1999; 353:1485-8.

Study looked at Anthroposophic children (children raised with restrictive use of vaccines, antibiotics and animal products). Compared those children with mainstream children in prevalence of allergies. Anthroposophic children had a far less prevalence of atopic diseases in childhood.

2. Anon. Post-infectious encephalitis: a problem of increasing importance. JAMA 1929; 92:1523-4.

4. Hoffman George, Naughteen Eileen R. Abuse or metabolic disorder. Arch Dis Child 1998; 78:395.
http://adc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/archdischil d%3b78/4/395g

5. Asztalos E, et al. Incidence of adverse effects from routine vaccination In premature infants. Pediatric Res 1996; 39:293A.

6. Further Contributions to the pertussis vaccine debate. The Lancet May 16, 1981; 113-4.

7. Beckenhauer W, et al. Immunosuppression with combined vaccines. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1983; 183(4):389-90

8. Beeler J, Varricchio F, Wise R. Thrombocytopenia after immunization with Measles vaccines: Review of the vaccine adverse events reporting system. Pedia Infect Disease J 1996; 15:1,88-90.

9. Behan P, et al. Acute necrotizing encephalopathy. Post Graduate Medicine 1973; 54(4):154-60.

11. Blumstein G, et al. Peripheral neuropathy following tetanus toxoid administration. JAMA 1966; 198:1030-1.

12. Bramley C, Hall T, Finn A, et al. Safety and immunogenicity of three lots of meningococcal serogorup C conjugate vaccine administered 2, 3 and 4 months of age. Vaccine 2000; 19:2924-31.

13. Braun M, Terracciano G, Salive M, et al. Report of a US Public Health Service Workshop on Hypotonic-Hyporesponsive Episode (HHE) following pertussis immunization. Pediatrics 1998; 102:1201-2.

14. Braun M, Patriarca P, Ellenberg S. Syncope after immunization. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine 1997; 151:255-9.

15. Brezin A, Massin-Korobelnik P, Boudin M, Gaudric A, et al. Acute posterior multifocal placoid pigment epitheliopathy after hepatitis B vaccine. Arch of Ophthal 1995; 133:297-00.

16. Brezin A. Visual loss and eosinophilia after recombinant hepatitis vaccine. Lancet 1993; 342:563-4.

17. Buttram H, Yazbak F. Shaken Baby Syndrome or Vaccine-Induced Encephalitis? The Story of Baby Alan; http://www.woodmed.com/ShakenBabyAlan.htm. 7/9/2000.

18. Byers R, Moll F. Encephalopathies following prophylactic pertussis vaccine. Pediatrics 1948; 1(4):437-39.

19. Universal vaccination against Hepatitis B alternate explanations. CMAJ 1992; 146:36.

20. Chen R. Vaccine safety datalink project: A new tool for improving vaccine safety monitoring in the US. Pediatrics 1997; 99(6):765-73.

23. Christie C, Marx M, Marchant C. Resurgence of disease in a highly immunized population of children, N Engl J Med Jul 7, 1994; 331(1):16-21.

24. Christie, Cecilia D. The 1993 epidemic of pertussis in Cincinnati — resurgence of disease in a highly immunized population of children. Presented in abstract form at the meeting at the society for pediatric research, Seattle May 3, 1994.
Abstract: In 784 DT and 15,752 DTP immunizations given to children 0 to 6 years of age who were prospectively studied for reactions occurring within 48 hours following immunization, minor reactions were significantly more frequent following DTP vaccine. The ratio of reaction rates associated with DTP and DT immunizations (DTP/DT) for selected local and systemic reactions was as follows: local redness, 37.4%/7.6%; local swelling, 40.7%/7.6%; pain, 50.9%/9.9%; fever, 31.5%/14.9%; drowsiness, 31.5%/14.9%; fretfulness, 53.4%/22.6%; vomiting, 6.2%/2.6%; anorexia, 20.9%/7.0% and persistent crying, 3.1%/0.7%. Following DTP immunization nine children developed convulsions and nine developed hypotonic hyporesponsive episodes. No sequelae were detected following these reactions. Volume 68, Issue 5, pp. 650-660, 11/01/1981.

25. Cody CL, Baraff LJ, Cherry JD, et al. Nature and rates of adverse reactions associated with DTP and DT immunizations in infants and children. Pediatrics 1981; 68(5):650-60.
Abstract: In 784 DT and 15,752 DTP immunizations given to children 0 to 6 years of age who were prospectively studied for reactions occurring within 48 hours following immunization, minor reactions were significantly more frequent following DTP vaccine. The ratio of reaction rates associated with DTP and DT immunizations (DTP/DT) for selected local and systemic reactions was as follows: local redness, 37.4%/7.6%; local swelling, 40.7%/7.6%; pain, 50.9%/9.9%; fever, 31.5%/14.9%; drowsiness, 31.5%/14.9%; fretfulness, 53.4%/22.6%; vomiting, 6.2%/2.6%; anorexia, 20.9%/7.0% and persistent crying, 3.1%/0.7%. Following DTP immunization nine children developed convulsions and nine developed hypotonic hyporesponsive episodes. No sequelae were detected following these reactions. Volume 68, Issue 5, pp. 650-660, 11/01/1981.

26. Cogan D. Immunosuppression and eye disease. Am J Ophthal 1977; 83(6):777-88.

27. Cohen DC, Shoenfeld Y, Vaccine-induced autoimmunity. J Autoimmunity 1996; 9:699-3.

28. Coulter M, Morgan L. Vaccine Debate: Do vaccines cause clot deaths? http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/coulter/vacc-deb.html.

30. Devin F, Roques P, Disdier F, et al. Occlusion of central retinal vein after hepatitis B vaccination. The Lancet 1996; 347:1626.

33. Eibl M, et al. Abnormal T-lymphocyte subpopulations in healthy subjects after tetanus booster immunization (Letter to the editor). New Eng J Med 1986; 310(3): 198-9.

36. Flexner S. Post vaccinal encephalitis and allied conditions. JAMA 1930; 94:305-11.

37. Fattom A. Vaccines cause immune suppression. Vaccine 1999; 17(2):126-33.

38. Gilliland M, Folberg R. Shaken Babies- Some Have NO Impact Injuries. J Forens Sci 1996; 41(1):114-16.

39. Goodwin J. Was It Murder Or A Bad Vaccine? Redbook Magazine Sep, 2000; 158-75. http://www.chiropracticresearch.org/NEWSmurder_or_bad_v accine.htm

40. Goolsby PL. Erythema nodosum after Recombivax HB hepatitis B vaccine. New Eng J Med 1989; 321:1198-9.

41.Gorer E. Post vaccinal encephalitis. JAMA 1933; 101:1871-4.

42. Granel B, Disdier P, Devin F, et al. Occlusion of the central retinal vein after vaccination against viral hepatitis B with recombinant vaccines: 4 cases. Presse Med 1977; 26:62-5.

43. Gross T, et al. Bulging fontanelle after immunization with DTP vaccine and DT vaccine. J Pediatr 1989; 114(3):423-5.

48. Hepatitis B Hearing.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/hepb15.html

51. Hoffman H, Hunter J, Damus K, et al. Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis Immunization and Sudden Infant Death: Results of the national institute of child health and human development cooperative epidemiological study of sudden infant death syndrome risk factors. Pediatrics 1987; 79(4):598-11.

52. Horiuchi S. et al. Two different histamine-sensitizing activities of pertussis vaccine observed in mice on the 4th and 12th days of sensitization. Japan J Med Sci Bio 1993; 46:17-27.

53. House A. Alleged link between hepatitis B vaccine and chronic fatigue syndrome. CMAJ 1992; 146(7):1145.

54. Hurwitz E, Morgenstern H. Effects of DPT or tetanus vaccination on allergies and allergy-related respiratory symptoms among children and adolescents in the US. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 2000; 23:1-10.

55. Hurwitz EL, Morgenstern H. Do DTP and tetanus vaccinations cause asthma? 2000; http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/18/07/05.html

58. Ishids Akama K. Swelling of the brain caused by pertussis vaccine: it’s quantitative determination and the responsible factors in the vaccine. Japan J Med Sci Biol 1985; 38(2):53-65.

59. Iwasa S. Swelling of the brain in mice caused by pertussis vaccine. J Med Sci Bio 1985; 38:53-65.

60. Jacob J, et al. Increased intracranial pressure after diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis immunization, Am J Dis Child 1979; 133:217-8.

62. Kaufman M. Alleged link between hepatitis B vaccine and chronic fatigue syndrome. CMAJ 1992; 146(1):37-9.

64. Kushner H, Kiessling L. Rethinking the diagnosis boundaries of tourette syndrome (TS): The possible role of streptococcal antibodies in TS. Tourette Syndr Assoc 1993; 4:6-12.

65. Levine S, and Hoenig E. A new form of localized allergic encephalomyelitis featuring polymorphonuclear neutrophilic leukocytes. Amer J Pathol 1971; 64(1):13-27.

66. Levine S, Lowinski R. Hyperacute allergic encephalomyelitis. Amer J. Pathol 1973; 73:247-50.

67. Livengood J, et al. Family history of convulsions and use of pertussis vaccine. J Pediatr 1989; 115:527-31.

68. Low N. Electroencephalographic studies following pertussis immunization. J Pediatr 1955; 47:35-9.

72. Mathus R, Kumari S. Bulging fontanelle following DPT. Indian Pediatr 1981; 18:417-18.

76. Menkes J. Neurologic complications of pertussis vaccination. Ann Neurology 1990; 28:428.

77. Menkes J, Kinsbourne M. Workshop on Neurologic Complications of Pertussis and Pertussis Vaccination. Neuropediatrics 1990; 21:171-76.

78. Miller D, et al. Pertussis immunization and serious acute neurological illnesses in children. Br Med J 307:1171-76.

80. Miller E, et al. Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura and MMR vaccine. Arch Dis Child 2001;84:227-9.
Article investigates 21 children with TCP and shows a significant causal link between it and the MMR vaccine. Authors cited a six week post immunization risk period. Authors cited an article by Cohn that found over 70% of the cases of ITP follow virus infections. Nine of thirteen cases were attributable to MMR and the relative risk for contracting ITP is one in 22,300 doses. The highest incidents occurred between 15-28 days. Two of every three cases of ITP were vaccine related but infants who already had ITCP were not at an increased risk of incidents after MMR. The study found that vaccine related incidents tended to be milder and not as likely to reoccur.

Part III:

82. Munoz J., Bernard C., (1983) Elicitation of Experimental Allergic Encephalomyelitis in Mice with the Aid of Pertussigen, Cellular Immunology 83:92-100

86. Niu M, Rhodes P, Salive M, et. al. Comparative safety of two recombinant Hepatitis B vaccines in children: Data from VAERS and vaccine safety datalink. J Clinic Epidemio 1998; 51(6):503-10.

87. Niu M, Davis D, Ellenberg S. Recombinant hepatitis B vaccination of neonates and infants: Emerging safety data from VAERS. Pedia Infect Dis J 1996; 15:771-76.

89. Nouno S. Adverse effects on EEG and clinical condition after immunizing children with convulsive disorders. Acta Paediatr Japan 1990; 32(4):357-60.

91. Odent M, Culpin E, Kimmel T. Pertussis vaccination and asthma: Is there a link? JAMA 1994; 272:592-3. 57. Olin P, Rasmussen F, Gustafsson L, et al. Randomized Controlled Trial Of Two, Three, and Five-Component Acellular. The Lancet 1997; 350:1569-77.

96. Haseler Luke J, Phil M, Arcinue Edgardo, Danielsen Else R, et al. Evidence from proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy for a metabolic cascade of neuronal damage in Shaken Baby Syndrome. Pediatrics 1997; 99(1):4-14. http://www.pediatrics.org:80/cgi/content/full/99/1/4?ma xtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&;

98. Olin Patrick, Rasmussen Finn, Gustafsson L, et al. Pertussis vaccines compared with whole-cell pertussis vaccine. The Lancet 1997; 350:1569-77.

99. Peroutka S, Kitamura K, Lim M. Treatment of lethal pertussis vaccine reaction with histamine H1 antagonists. Neurology 1987; 37:1068-72.

103. Poulin P, Gabriel B. Thrombocytopenic purpura after recombinant Hepatitis B vaccine. The Lancet 1994; 344:1293.

104. U.S. Vaccine Manufacturers’ Statement on Thimerosal. Press Release (1999).
http://thinktwice.com/mercury.htm

105. Ranferi V. (1996). Liver inflammation and acute respiratory distress syndrome in a patient receiving hepatitis B vaccine: a possible relationship? Intensive Care Med 1997; 23:119-21.

106. Reactions to vaccine match symptoms found in ’shaken baby’ cases.

107. Rennels, M Deloria, M Pichichero, et al. Lack of consistent relationship between quantity aluminum in diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis vaccines and rates of extensive swelling reactions. Vaccine 2002; 20: S44-SS7.

108. Ribera EF. Polyneuropathy associated with administration of hepatitis B vaccine. New Engl J med 1983; 309:615.

110. Scheibner V. Shaken Baby Syndrome: The vaccination link. Nexus 1993; (31) http://www.whale.to/vaccines/sbs.html.

111. Schlenska G. Unusual neurological complications following tetanus-toxoid administration. J Neurol 1977; 215:299-02.

112. Sepkowitz S. Reputed brain damage and ’serious’ reactions from DTP vaccines. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 1996; 150(5):457-65.

113. Sepkowitz S. Perverse reactions to pertussis vaccine by government medical agencies. J Okla State Med Assoc 1996; 89(4):135-8.

116. Scheibner V. Shaken Baby Syndrome the vaccination link. Nexus 1998; 31

118. Steering Committee, the International Study of Asthma and Allergies in Childhood (ISAAC) Worldwide variation in prevalence of symptoms of asthma, rhinoconjuctivitis, and atopic eczema. Lancet 1998:351:1225-1232.

119. Stetler H., et al. History Of Convulsions And Use Of Pertussis Vaccine. J Pediatr 1985; 107:175-179

121. Terpstra G. Comparison of vaccination of mice and rats with hemophilus influenzae and bordetella pertussis as models. Clin Exp Pharmac Physiol 1979; 6(2):139-49.

122. Toomey J. Reactions to pertussis vaccine. JAMA 1949; 139(7):448-50.

123. Toraldo R, et al. Effect of MMR vaccination on polymorphnuclear functions in children. Acta Paediatr 1992; 81(11):887-90.

124. Torch W. Characteristics of DPT postvaccinal deaths and DPT-caused SIDS. Neurology 1986; 36(1).

125. Tudela P, Marti S, Bonal J. Systemic lupus erythematosus & vaccination against hepatitis B: Letter to editor. Nephron 1992; 62:236.

126. Vaccine Safety Forum: Summary of Two Workshops. Institute of Medicine 1997; http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/vaccine/

130. Walker A, et al. Neurologic events following Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis immunization. Pediatrics 1988; 81:345-9.

131. Weibel R, Caserta V, Benor D, et al. Acute encephalopathy followed by permanent brain injury or death associated with further attenuated measles vaccines. Pediatrics 1999; 103(3):694-6.

132. Wilkins J. DTP reactions (Letter to the editor). Pediatrics 1988; 81(6).

133. Wilson G. Vaccination & behavioral disorders - a review of the controversy. Koren Publications 1998; 1-78.

And then vaccine enthusiasts… after you’re done addressing the studies and questions, perhaps you can explain the GAO’s report of less than 3% of adverse events are reported. As one looks at the VAERS adverse events data is it safe to assume that we have not seen all the problems associated with vaccinations or the true numbers of adverse events? I believe so. And can anyone point me to the study of long-term studies of adverse events? (please try to refrain from any ghost-studies - which has contributed to 80% of the studies that are public. Also, please try to refrain from studies from or sponsored or paid by the manufacturer).

Sorry, you included a whale.to link… you automatically lose due to Scopie’s Law:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/06/the_nuttiness_that_is_whaleto.php

That is all the energy you are all worth, since there is no way to take you seriously (and that also goes for pulling out the bogus Jock Doubleday challenge).

I see…. because you see something cited you don’t agree with you disregard everything. With all due respect, how to expect to know the opposition when you don’t learn it? I hope you’re ready to discuss the association of Aluminum and Formaldahyde to Lou Gehrig’s and Alzheimer’s (that’s not from a “whale link” by the way). How about discussing the University of Calvary’s study leading to the distruction of brain neurons from mercury. That’s not “whale” either.

With all due respect HCN, you’re showing exactly why parents are questioning. Where are your studies by the way into safety and efficacy? Where are your studies to prove vaccinations declined and/or eradicated diseases? I’ll be anxiously awaiting!

And HCN, I see you chose to ignore this, so let me repost it:

I also find it odd with the talk of vaccines that production is never discussed. Can anyone please explain the following:

1. Viral Contamination during commercial vaccine prodction.
2. Nanobacteria.
3. Bovine pestivirus detection, or lack of screening for such.
4. Immortal cells used in vaccine culture.
5. Cross contamination of cell lines.
6. “Other” species viral contamination.

Please direct me to the safety data as it relates to these very real issues surrounding vaccine production.

Also HCN, I see that you missed the part about the GAO findings on the adverse events reporting. Care to respond?

I am not sure exactly where this thread is going…. but to answer an earlier concern about the quality of science behind vaccination recommendations, the HPV vaccine prospective randomized placebo controlled trials have been published in Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine in 2007.

I think the same is true for the rotavirus vaccine or any other recently approved vaccine.

To understand the “quality” of “science” behind Gardasil - read Dr. Harper’s review (the inventor) about it.
The below explains it from Harper’s point of view. If you want more, just do a simple search.

http://euthenist.org/gardasil_danger_zone.htm

Looks like HCN might just be a hack-blogger for some vested vaccine interest….undoubtedly not the parent of an injured child who has scrambled to catch up however possible. Certainly not interested in the facts, just the dogma…because he/she’s a “scientist”. ( I’m a doctor, for what it’s worth, and no, I don’t administer vaccines. Surprised?)

Thanks for your contributions Tia, you opened the forum. HCN, I’m not sure what he/she is, but when the facts are not on ones side, one goes crawling with the tail between thy legs.
I don’t have a vaccine injured child, but I was injured by a vaccine myself prior to having children which is what made me begin to research all vaccines. I was deceived. It was hard to admit as I considered myself to be smart but I was deceived. Hell if I would let it happen to my children.

And thank you, Herd Rebel, for making the world safer for YOUR children. I spend my days trying to help children recover from the ravages of vaccine injury. Some of them are learning to speak again. Some are able to make eye contact and have a conversation with their peers. Others are celebrating their first normal bowel movement since they went “away”.
Whether the general public will ever wake from their deep, hypnotic love affair with all-things-pharmaceutical, there will always be those who dig a little deeper than mainstream thought. They are the saviors. They are the visionaries. Perhaps their numbers are risng.
Better-living-through-chemistry is sheer laziness, as every drug (including, and maybe most especially, vaccines) are mere half-baked replicas of substances our bodies produce on their own IF ONLY they’re given the opportunity. Few understand, but it sounds like you’ve learned to trust your gut , do the research and follow your head….(and the money, of course). That makes my day.

(Oh, and HCN, I’m sure this conversation is much too trivial for a “scientist” such as yourself. Just for fun, before I go to work today, I think I’ll go read whale….I’ll probably even learn something.)

Tia: I have a vaccine injured cousin and nephew (autism). Unfortunately, my family only listened after they experienced the effects. They no longer vaccinate, either. I understand (though not directly) the trials that one goes through with a vaccine injured child. It takes a strong person to not go insane (pending the level of severity). Sounds like you got yourself one tough job - though I’m sure at times it can also be rewarding. What I find highly ironic is that this all started with the smallpox vaccine and everyone is so sure it eradicated smallpox. In reading Miller’s book and looking at history, one can see the deceipt started from the very beginning.
The lies are so wide that it’s actually quite magnificent on how everyone plays along. People think vaccines are mandated for school entry so they pump their chlidren up with all these lovely neurotoxins so they can get into a public school. LIE!!! People think all these diseases are sooo deadly as what has been portrayed via media, doctors, FDA, NIH, CDC, WHO… LIE!!!!
It’s just completely mind boggling.
Enjoy the whale site - I find it quite interesting, myself!

Dr. Sherry Tenpenny’s theory is that if mainstream medicine dares to question ‘vaccine wisdom’, they will be forced to re-think ALL general medical stratagies—and the house of cards will tumble. There’s not much danger of the public catching on anytime soon, as they’re largely ’sheeple’, as demonstrated by some of the less thoughtful comments on this blog. Neil Miller is one of my heroes–brilliant Mensa mind, and a tireless researcher. I’ve found that parents vaccinate for two primary reasons: 1) they believe they HAVE to (governmental regulations, you know) and 2) they’re afraid NOT to, due to the purely made-up numbers of “lives saved” through mass innoculation. The media is bought and paid for by the very people who have the most to gain through the lie. It’s amazing, you’re right. And for a really interesting exercise, investigate the revolving door for employees who surf between the CDC, FDA, and the pharmaceutical industry. It’ll put chills up your spine.
My mother’s parents were vaccine ‘rebels’ in the early ’20’s. My parents were rebels in the ’50’s. I, too, am a rebel and the parent of a 33 yr-old in vibrant health who’s NEVER HAD A VACCINE. I guess that makes me, what—’unscientific’? Call it what you will, but when I look into the faces of children who will never have a normal life because their parents simply didn’t know….I’ll let people call me whatever they like. Someday, the world will look back on this barbarism and shake their heads in disbelief. I hope it’s sooner than later.

LOL - I know too well of the revolving door of FDA/NIH and Pharma… if you really want to have some fun…. try looking at Government officials and DoD being involved in that revolving door. That’s where the fun really begins!
I neither care what people call me - the truth is what it is.
My children are little tots and are vaccine free - and I’d put my life up to theirs before anyone comes at them with a syringe!
Given that you’re older, Tia, have you been paying attention to any of the “biodefense” bills? ie., Project Bioshield, MSHEPA, EUA? That’s what gives me willies! Not to mention the AAP’s latest shenanigan! But myself and children see a holistic doctor so it doesn’t effect me, but it’s the lengths that these organizations/government is going to that makes my head spin.

How ironic to address these issues on the anniversary of our “independence”, as we see our former freedoms slip further and further away by mere default. I clearly recall the era of the cold war, fear of communism, the polio epidemic and the post-war optimism which spurred the baby boom. IF ONLY making personal choices were as simple as finding a holistic doctor, but I fear that as we entertain ourselves with 200+ tv channels, video games and the internet, dark forces lurk in the shadows. delighted at our distraction. Along with the MSHEPA, EUA, and AAP (whataloada crap), consider the Gates Foundation, genetically modified foods (aka Monsanto), and an upcoming presidential election that merely offers up opportunities for more of the same governmental back-scratching. The biodefense bills, along with billions of $$ toward a bogus ‘bird flu epidemic’ has all the hallmarks of a culture primed for implosion. (Apathy, greed, power-mongering and ignorance are a frightening combination.) Not only do these horrifying federal mandates take choices out of our hands–they place those choices in the capricious hands of others who have no appreciation for our history or our former struggles. Most average citizens have no idea that with the stroke of a pen, our most fundamental freedoms have been taken from us. Freedom to choose what goes into our bodies–is there anything more fundamental? These new laws entitle authorities to “round up” dissenters, lock them away and punish them for noncompliance to rules they had no voice in making. They’re also given the authority to decide what constitutes an “emergency” for which these rules can be applied. In addition, some vested interests are free to hoist their own unproven, untested, potentially deadly “devices” onto unsuspecting citizens with no liability or responsibility for outcomes. All in the name of “security”. Well, I, for one, don’t feel secure. Perhaps if this fervent battle over vaccines has an up-side, it’s that thousands of parents will forever look at institutional mandates with a keener eye. Maybe there are just enough victims to create a tipping point, where the culture will no longer quietly accept that ‘authorities’ should call the shots…pardon the pun.

We have a lot in common. I pay “little attention” to GMF’s (bad I know, but there’s only so much time in a day). A girlfriend of mine in ID is however all over this.
Detainees… ah…. you mean the concentration camps. (you can use that terminology with me; it is what it is).
I too feel sorry for the majority, they are clueless… at the same time, there’s also things going on right now to detract the attention, I’m not sure however if there wasn’t if things would be any different. Many people need things spoon fed, and there’s no doubt some of the above are very complex.
I’d like to talk to you off forum, and the easiest way I can think of without exposing email information is to direct you to this link which you may find of interest anyway (it sort of goes along with what the topic has been switched to (ie., lack of freedom).

If you feel inclined, go here and leave a message - it may take me a couple days, but I’ll for sure find you then I can email you.

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-ppcurrentdb&msg=23288.33&ctx=128

By the way, Happy Independence Day! (whatever that means anymore).

Also, regarding the “Presidential Elect” (ughhh….) don’t blame me - I was a RP supporter to the hill! The two major left-overs don’t really matter, either one is going to screw this country further and a Republic? What’s that??

Since my vote is supposed to represent who I think would best serve my priorities, I will write in my candidate, Ron Paul. After all, the election isn’t about guessing who’s most “popular” and jumping onboard, right?
I’m a little unclear about what to do once I get to iVillage–tried it, but where to go from there? Please advise. I’d love to chat more, as you have some great resources, and I’m always looking for more info re: these subjects.
Yes, happy independence to all….if only everyone was well-informed enough to know what that could actually mean.

I’m writing in RP, too. Once at Ivillage, (sorry, I’ve been signed in for awhile and I’m having to go from memory) - but look for a link titled forums or parenting and pregnancy. From there there’s going to be a lot of forums that should appear on the left. The above particular string (sorry that was a comment I sent you to, not the actual article) appears under “Current Debates” and is titled “Catching a wild pig”. (or something close to that). If you can find the Current Debates, you may have to click the ‘more’ to bring up that link.
If you still can’t find it, tomorrow when I have more time, I’ll go back and do it step by step so I can direct a little better. I think you’ll like some of these forums if we can get you there.

Where to start. So much wrong in one post!

“Formaldehyde, Mercury, Aluminum, Antifreeze, Methanol, Phenol, Foreign DNA and even extracts from aborted human fetuses.” There is no formaldehyde or anti-freeze in any vaccine (these two are widespread myths). There is no metallic mercury, the but there was (not past tense) thimerosal, an organic compound that contains bound mercury ion. There is no metallic aluminium, but there is in some vaccine aluminium hydroxside in very small amounts, to serve as a local stimulant to the immune system. There are no “extracts from aborted human fetuses”, this comes from a twisted version of the truth: cell lines are used to “grow” the viruses used in preparing vaccines; these cell lines in some cases were originally developed from a small number of aborted human fetuses (many years ago; cell lines can be grown for a long once developed). Methanol and phenol in tiny amounts wouldn’t do anything to you (as they say, the dose makes the toxin; it’d take LOT more to make these toxic).

And that’s just one sentence!

Herd Rebel,

In response to your studies citing adverse events, no one has ever claimed that vaccines are 100% safe. Read the package insert - it has a complete list of side effects. Not being 100% safe does not mean that most children shouldn’t be vaccinated. Vaccine preventable diseases killed millions of children in days past, and continue to kill millions of children around the world. Those who are not killed are often left with permanent health problems from these diseases. If you’re not familiar with risk-benefit analysis, I suggest you learn about it.

Sayer, you said “Vaccination is not safe, nor effective. Science demonstrates the veracity of this statement, over and over again.”
Please cite the studies claiming that vaccination is not effective, or that it is not largely safe. And no, citing a study that shows an incredibly small rate of side effects does not mean that vaccination is not largely safe.

“Statistics show that vaccination has not lead to a dramatic reduction in say, measles, or polio - but that preceding the advent of vaccines for these conditions, levels had dropped precipitously thanks to better hygiene and water purification.”
Yes, disease levels did drop due to sanitation. But they did not drop to zero. There are obvious precipitous drops immediately after the advent of certain vaccinations. If you have different statistics, cite them.

“To the contrary, measles is now a growing threat because vaccination disables the innate mechanism by which measles is permanently eliminated from the body, transforming what would be an acute disease into a chronic one.”

Again, please cite a source for this claim. I doubt you’ll find one, since the exact opposite is true. Some vaccine preventable diseases are making a comeback, because of a drop in vaccination rates due to the kind of fearmongering you, Herd Rebel, and tia are engaging in.

And tia? “a doctor, for what it’s worth”? No, you’re obviously a liar.

Are you kidding me? Yes, I realize no vaccines are 100% safe (unless it’s the vaccine not given). Can you tell me if my child will react to one or not? Can you tell me the mortality rate of diseases prior to vaccine introduction once water sanitation laws were passed, sanitation education began and living crowding conditions improved? I’ve read the product inserts. And that’s one of the reasons why I say “thanks but no thanks”. When you can tell me “which” children should be vaccinated, I’d be all ears given that trials are done on healthy individuals (no underlying disorder or family history of genetic dispositions) as well as follow-up for long term effects consisting of less than one month, do we need to go into the manipulation of the numbers of participants? Given the cumulating affects of neurotoxins with each vaccination can one adequately discharge this from the body (difference between ingestion vs. injection)? What are the effects on the BBB with each neurotoxin? What are the effects on the immune system? What are the effects given that diseases are being “injected” into the blood stream (eventually) and bypassing the natural route of exposure? Give me a break.

Killing “millions of children around the world”… Yes, they are. Try the 3rd world countries. Perhaps if more emphasis is placed on sanitation, nutrition, education, water purification, living conditions, we’d see those diseases decline, just like what happened in the US. I’m familiar with the “risk-benefit analysis”. Again, are you kidding me? Study your history. You’ll see diseases were on the decline, in some cases by 90% via mortality prior to vaccinations. In some cases where no vaccinations exist, the disease became eradicated. Wonder how that happened?

Where is the science that vaccinations are safe and effective? I can provide multitude of the AE’s of the safety. Regarding “efficacy” given that a study was also done stating titres nor antibodies means immunity, I’d love to see what you have on “efficacy”. Yawn…..

Oh… make sure it’s not part of the 80% of ghost-written studies as per JAMA.

The problem with you stating “levels did not drop to zero” until vaccinations is that man intervened. We can’t go back into history and see if we just left it alone what would have transpired. Given that diseases were on their way out, (again, some cases by 90%) we should have just left it alone….
———————————————————————–

Herd Rebel,

In response to your studies citing adverse events, no one has ever claimed that vaccines are 100% safe. Read the package insert - it has a complete list of side effects. Not being 100% safe does not mean that most children shouldn’t be vaccinated. Vaccine preventable diseases killed millions of children in days past, and continue to kill millions of children around the world. Those who are not killed are often left with permanent health problems from these diseases. If you’re not familiar with risk-benefit analysis, I suggest you learn about it.

Sayer, you said “Vaccination is not safe, nor effective. Science demonstrates the veracity of this statement, over and over again.”
Please cite the studies claiming that vaccination is not effective, or that it is not largely safe. And no, citing a study that shows an incredibly small rate of side effects does not mean that vaccination is not largely safe.

“Statistics show that vaccination has not lead to a dramatic reduction in say, measles, or polio - but that preceding the advent of vaccines for these conditions, levels had dropped precipitously thanks to better hygiene and water purification.”
Yes, disease levels did drop due to sanitation. But they did not drop to zero. There are obvious precipitous drops immediately after the advent of certain vaccinations. If you have different statistics, cite them.

“To the contrary, measles is now a growing threat because vaccination disables the innate mechanism by which measles is permanently eliminated from the body, transforming what would be an acute disease into a chronic one.”

Again, please cite a source for this claim. I doubt you’ll find one, since the exact opposite is true. Some vaccine preventable diseases are making a comeback, because of a drop in vaccination rates due to the kind of fearmongering you, Herd Rebel, and tia are engaging in.

And tia? “a doctor, for what it’s worth”? No, you’re obviously a liar.

Heraclides:
There is none of the below in vaccinations? Hmm… you should probably write manufacturer’s and have them change their inserts then. Thimerosol is still well and alive in vaccinations. Yes, you “can” get them thimerosol free, that’s assuming someone knows enough to “ask” for it. Geez.
Regardless of how “small” the amount is (which we’re guessing on at taking the manufacturer’s word for) but even if it was “minute”. NO level of injection is “safe” that has been proven, not to mention the accumulation factor.
I believe regarding aborted fetus’s, I used the terminology cell lines. If I used something else, I apologize. Regardless, it’s still part of the human body from aborted fetus’s. Disregard that however you may.
Tell me… as you “stimuli” the immune system, perhaps you can explain what this is doing to the body, given that no one else seems to completely understand it. I’d like to know all the affects.
Please show me as well via studies what it is a human being can have via toxins a level of “safety” via injections. There is a difference between inhaled, ingested and injected. Show me the peer-reviewed study from a non-biased group that’s not ghost-written.
So much wrong in one post? I don’t think so.

—————————————————————————————–
Where to start. So much wrong in one post!

“Formaldehyde, Mercury, Aluminum, Antifreeze, Methanol, Phenol, Foreign DNA and even extracts from aborted human fetuses.” There is no formaldehyde or anti-freeze in any vaccine (these two are widespread myths). There is no metallic mercury, the but there was (not past tense) thimerosal, an organic compound that contains bound mercury ion. There is no metallic aluminium, but there is in some vaccine aluminium hydroxside in very small amounts, to serve as a local stimulant to the immune system. There are no “extracts from aborted human fetuses”, this comes from a twisted version of the truth: cell lines are used to “grow” the viruses used in preparing vaccines; these cell lines in some cases were originally developed from a small number of aborted human fetuses (many years ago; cell lines can be grown for a long once developed). Methanol and phenol in tiny amounts wouldn’t do anything to you (as they say, the dose makes the toxin; it’d take LOT more to make these toxic).

And that’s just one sentence!

Hi Herd Rebel,

1. As you say (between the lines I think) the herd versus the individual is an appalling trade off. One of the discussions that needs to be had is the kinds of moral argument that this discussion is framed in.

2. There are pretensions to individualising medicine by those who are into DNA engineering and such. My guess is that this will never be affordable for most people (if it does turn out to be possible). At the moment I think it is just boosterism.

3. We all take on danger for the sake of others. The survivalist option doesn’t really work.

4. The efficacy of vaccination in my view was shown in Australia (where I’m from). Vaccination was introduced where clean drinking water and hygiene already existed. The number of cases of polio fell markedly. Primary health care is of course the first concern. But vaccination, in some cases, can also save lives. And yes there will have been adverse reactions.

5. The concern for safety for individuals isn’t addressed in this way of discussion. And it can’t be addressed by modern medicine - which relies on statistical analysis of medicines given to a diverse range of people. (This - often called - a ‘gold standard’ I find crass.) Modern medicine is about the odds and averages. Outrageous and immoral perhaps but this is the way it is done.